O'Brien could have spared us a lot of superfluous prose if he had adopted an understanding of left and right brain thinking: China is more right and the West left.
Hard to believe the same O'Brien wrote both pieces. As you said this one's more conciliatory. He does not want to go to war over a region-specific conflict thousands of miles away. Amen!
He brings up the influence of Christianity on Western moral philosophy which makes it different and, in his mind, better than China's. We think all souls are created equal. They (Confucius) see hierarchy right from cradle to grave). However, the notion of hierarchy is foundational to the East and philosophically to conservatism in the West, at least if you peel back the Christian layer and consider our pagan past. One might want to read some of Rolo Slavsky's recent articles about this. The collapse of Christianity under the covert assault of Judaism and the jihad of Islam seems catastrophic in its consequences. But a reconsideration of equality vs hierarchy in human values is now becoming possible.
The Egyptians, Summerians, Greeks and Romans didn't believe in equality and they did pretty well. Greco-Romans of course had a notion of democracy, but it was not inclusive of "All men are created equal."
Yes it's the same O'Brien - young guy in his early 20s, no formal education in any of this, finding his feet as a writer - I'm happy to lend him the platform so he can cut his teeth on whatever is interesting him.
Thanks for the skinny on O'Brien. I guess I shouldn't get left-brained about his shaky grammar seeing as how he's untutored. Not everybody went to Catholic school.
Yep, need to give the kid a break and let him grow, maybe even encourage him a bit. I'm sure you had a similar growth trajectory back in the day, right? I'm trying to encourage him to jump onto Substack so he can also have a go at responding to comments.
I have no wish to rain on the kid's parade project. I'll save my arrows for other targets. Right now John Carter is getting them.
Since I started seeking before the www w/ all its interconnectivity and speed, progress was slow and errors in judgment lingered because no one was around to offer correction.
I would have welcomed a more experienced guiding hand but didn't meet one until after 9/11 after I'd been on the computer for a few years already. My email is from those 90's days - webtv.
Appreciate your discretion Billy - it's a rough and tumble world and can be a bit daunting for the young ones - but they do have to learn how to listen and discern what's right and what's bullshit, and who's out to honestly provide a worthy alternate perspective and who's just up for an argument, no matter what.
Time in the game is such an advantage as there are so many perspectives, so many books to read, so many philosophies, conspiracies, ideologies, and histories, it takes a lifetime just to get your head around a fraction of it. So I'm more likely to heap on the encouragement to keep learning, offer some gentle nudges in alternate directions if need be, and do my best to encourage independent thinking (rather than slamming them with my own, limited, and biased, take on the world).
I really like John Carter (whoever he is behind the name) so don't stick in too many arrows, I don't want him to start bleeding out! (I can't imagine he would flinch though, he seems rather secure in his positions).
You are welcome to aim arrows at any of my writing - I'm old enough to take constructive criticism, confident enough to call you out on any bullshit, and always thankful for opening a new door I hadn't seen before ;-)
I appreciate your forthcoming attitude. J Carter lacks it. He's petrified of being a real person. Says it's a scary time. Boomers don't understand. So I've quit him, not in a huff but in disappointment. No point shooting arrows into a padded target that doesn't register hits.
As you noted, there's a bewildering proliferation of content one can try to consume in order to discover some reliable truth. One sorely needs a guide or touchstone to point the way. Acquiring that talisman or reliable ally is a matter of trust borne of experience.
My experience: Was into rock music decades before getting on the truth-seeking path. In the Sixties my touchstone for appraising new albums was simple: did they have long hair? did they have long songs? Nuff said. Worth a shot.
Now, that simplistic guideline becomes meaningless. Appearance means very little and length of songs nothing at all. Same w/ bloggers/writers. You learn to evaluate from experience not from finding an ideology and sticking to it. The enemy will co-opt your ideology w/o you even noticing. Have you noticed that w/ conservatism?
Do you have a touchstone, Winston? Some guiding thoughts? Carter wouldn't touch that sort of personal revelation. Wouldn't even list any authorial influences by name. Scared of being doxxed if he revealed such potentially incriminating data.
As I see it, this war started Go style, with slow, gradual infiltration of all the key points of the western societies, continued Chess style, with calculated hits and diversions here and there - clot shots, masks, lockdowns, war, food and energy shortage - and as they advance with their agenda it changes more and more into Battleships, they don't care about being exposed, don't even cover their lies and abuses, laws and regulations have become science fiction, they just laugh in our faces while doing whatever they like.
Whether it will end up Wrestling or Whack-a-mole style, remains to be seen...
This was an interesting article. It’s hard to understand other cultures like China, whose underlying principles and thought processes can be so different than our own. Important to know though, so we can see past the noise and find commonality.
I cannot square the circle though of how China could be moving to be more free, while at the same time using the social credit scoring system that takes away freedom if one deviates from what the government standard is on all behavior and thought. Am I missing something here? Is it a question of how they view individual freedom there versus our western way of seeing that? I can’t say I would embrace there view over our own, if that is the case.
Yeah I'm not sure about tightening control via social credit system and freedom unless the concept is a type of freedom for the people as a whole - individual deviation is not tolerated for the goal of corporate (as in the body of all the people) good. I'm just guessing here.
Hubby also had an interesting take. He tied it to a book he read a few years back, The Paradox of Choice. Perhaps the Asian cultures feel more secure in knowing exactly what is expected of them, and this lack of more choices leads to being more content and thus happier.
We really didn't get the real story of what happened in Tianamen square.
Here's some points to ponder... And if you watch the guy in front of the tank full video, you'll see that he went on top of the tank, talked to the guys, got off, and went on his way.
Meanwhile, in protests in the US, I have seen people blocking police, getting run over, no tank needed. Nobody gets in trouble... But a guy stopping a tank and not being run over is the sign of oppression? Lol
If we don't fix ourselves first nothing will change. Start by planting a garden.
Yes, good start - I love our garden!
O'Brien could have spared us a lot of superfluous prose if he had adopted an understanding of left and right brain thinking: China is more right and the West left.
Hard to believe the same O'Brien wrote both pieces. As you said this one's more conciliatory. He does not want to go to war over a region-specific conflict thousands of miles away. Amen!
He brings up the influence of Christianity on Western moral philosophy which makes it different and, in his mind, better than China's. We think all souls are created equal. They (Confucius) see hierarchy right from cradle to grave). However, the notion of hierarchy is foundational to the East and philosophically to conservatism in the West, at least if you peel back the Christian layer and consider our pagan past. One might want to read some of Rolo Slavsky's recent articles about this. The collapse of Christianity under the covert assault of Judaism and the jihad of Islam seems catastrophic in its consequences. But a reconsideration of equality vs hierarchy in human values is now becoming possible.
The Egyptians, Summerians, Greeks and Romans didn't believe in equality and they did pretty well. Greco-Romans of course had a notion of democracy, but it was not inclusive of "All men are created equal."
Yes it's the same O'Brien - young guy in his early 20s, no formal education in any of this, finding his feet as a writer - I'm happy to lend him the platform so he can cut his teeth on whatever is interesting him.
Thanks for your engagement Billy.
Thanks for the skinny on O'Brien. I guess I shouldn't get left-brained about his shaky grammar seeing as how he's untutored. Not everybody went to Catholic school.
Yep, need to give the kid a break and let him grow, maybe even encourage him a bit. I'm sure you had a similar growth trajectory back in the day, right? I'm trying to encourage him to jump onto Substack so he can also have a go at responding to comments.
I have no wish to rain on the kid's parade project. I'll save my arrows for other targets. Right now John Carter is getting them.
Since I started seeking before the www w/ all its interconnectivity and speed, progress was slow and errors in judgment lingered because no one was around to offer correction.
I would have welcomed a more experienced guiding hand but didn't meet one until after 9/11 after I'd been on the computer for a few years already. My email is from those 90's days - webtv.
Appreciate your discretion Billy - it's a rough and tumble world and can be a bit daunting for the young ones - but they do have to learn how to listen and discern what's right and what's bullshit, and who's out to honestly provide a worthy alternate perspective and who's just up for an argument, no matter what.
Time in the game is such an advantage as there are so many perspectives, so many books to read, so many philosophies, conspiracies, ideologies, and histories, it takes a lifetime just to get your head around a fraction of it. So I'm more likely to heap on the encouragement to keep learning, offer some gentle nudges in alternate directions if need be, and do my best to encourage independent thinking (rather than slamming them with my own, limited, and biased, take on the world).
I really like John Carter (whoever he is behind the name) so don't stick in too many arrows, I don't want him to start bleeding out! (I can't imagine he would flinch though, he seems rather secure in his positions).
You are welcome to aim arrows at any of my writing - I'm old enough to take constructive criticism, confident enough to call you out on any bullshit, and always thankful for opening a new door I hadn't seen before ;-)
I appreciate your forthcoming attitude. J Carter lacks it. He's petrified of being a real person. Says it's a scary time. Boomers don't understand. So I've quit him, not in a huff but in disappointment. No point shooting arrows into a padded target that doesn't register hits.
As you noted, there's a bewildering proliferation of content one can try to consume in order to discover some reliable truth. One sorely needs a guide or touchstone to point the way. Acquiring that talisman or reliable ally is a matter of trust borne of experience.
My experience: Was into rock music decades before getting on the truth-seeking path. In the Sixties my touchstone for appraising new albums was simple: did they have long hair? did they have long songs? Nuff said. Worth a shot.
Now, that simplistic guideline becomes meaningless. Appearance means very little and length of songs nothing at all. Same w/ bloggers/writers. You learn to evaluate from experience not from finding an ideology and sticking to it. The enemy will co-opt your ideology w/o you even noticing. Have you noticed that w/ conservatism?
Do you have a touchstone, Winston? Some guiding thoughts? Carter wouldn't touch that sort of personal revelation. Wouldn't even list any authorial influences by name. Scared of being doxxed if he revealed such potentially incriminating data.
♗
Chess vs Go. That is a subtle observation.
As I see it, this war started Go style, with slow, gradual infiltration of all the key points of the western societies, continued Chess style, with calculated hits and diversions here and there - clot shots, masks, lockdowns, war, food and energy shortage - and as they advance with their agenda it changes more and more into Battleships, they don't care about being exposed, don't even cover their lies and abuses, laws and regulations have become science fiction, they just laugh in our faces while doing whatever they like.
Whether it will end up Wrestling or Whack-a-mole style, remains to be seen...
This was an interesting article. It’s hard to understand other cultures like China, whose underlying principles and thought processes can be so different than our own. Important to know though, so we can see past the noise and find commonality.
I cannot square the circle though of how China could be moving to be more free, while at the same time using the social credit scoring system that takes away freedom if one deviates from what the government standard is on all behavior and thought. Am I missing something here? Is it a question of how they view individual freedom there versus our western way of seeing that? I can’t say I would embrace there view over our own, if that is the case.
Yeah I'm not sure about tightening control via social credit system and freedom unless the concept is a type of freedom for the people as a whole - individual deviation is not tolerated for the goal of corporate (as in the body of all the people) good. I'm just guessing here.
That’s also where my thoughts were leading me.
Hubby also had an interesting take. He tied it to a book he read a few years back, The Paradox of Choice. Perhaps the Asian cultures feel more secure in knowing exactly what is expected of them, and this lack of more choices leads to being more content and thus happier.
We really didn't get the real story of what happened in Tianamen square.
Here's some points to ponder... And if you watch the guy in front of the tank full video, you'll see that he went on top of the tank, talked to the guys, got off, and went on his way.
Meanwhile, in protests in the US, I have seen people blocking police, getting run over, no tank needed. Nobody gets in trouble... But a guy stopping a tank and not being run over is the sign of oppression? Lol
https://www.reddit.com/r/communism/comments/mp2i0f/what_really_happened_at_tiananmen_square/