This is brilliant! Can you comment perhaps on Pavlovian use of language as a means of control vs. Foucault's views on the power of language? They both see language as central. But Pavlov acts as if there can be one message while Foucault says that there can be no universals. But then the paradox of Foucault is that his adherents are implementing totalitarianism in the U.S. as we speak (cancelling people left and right and requiring certain forms of language over others) -- being more Pavlovian than even Pavlov himself.
Thanks Toby. I think you can see Pavlovian classical conditioning and Foucault's perspective of power as two layers (I'm talking off the top of my head here and may need to dive into Foucault a bit deeper) - where Foucault is bringing the perspective of the powerful curating the language and discourse and Pavlov provides the understanding of how those words, definitions and discourses become embedded into our neural architecture to reflexively respond (i.e. without conscious effort) with the "right" responses. I think the perspectives fit together well as part of the propaganda picture. Of course Neurolinguistic Programming wraps it all up in a neat off-the-shelf, do-it-yourself propaganda manual ;-). I'll get to NLP soonish. Let me know if that resonates with you Toby or if there are other ideas floating around on this.
I have some sympathy for Foucault. Postmodernism can be a tool of liberation if used correctly. It certainly does not think of itself as top down. If Pavlov is a dog (obedient, loyal, trainable), postmodernism is just endless cats seemingly all doing their thing. But then in 2021, all the cats started acting in lockstep and it is profoundly weird.
I like your dog/cat analogy, and possibly postmodernism has had looked like cats doing their own thing but deeper down the erosion of certain foundations about reality has caused the cats to suddenly become a homogenous, tame, enslaved even, population desperately grasping for a foundation that has been deleted from their minds. I'm only guessing from the work of Iain McGilchrist and his "Master and His Emissary" and his new "The Matter With Things" (of which I've not read but waiting in eager anticipation at the front gate for it to be delivered).
Brilliant, thank you. Fits like a glove in the current context and I’m afraid it’s very depressing. Really brings the slogan ‘We’re all in this together’ in perspective, doesn’t it?
Yes that's right - and so many other slogans - I've mentioned before the "Stay Home, Save Lives" puts you in a situation that if you don't stay home you are killing people!
This is brilliant! Can you comment perhaps on Pavlovian use of language as a means of control vs. Foucault's views on the power of language? They both see language as central. But Pavlov acts as if there can be one message while Foucault says that there can be no universals. But then the paradox of Foucault is that his adherents are implementing totalitarianism in the U.S. as we speak (cancelling people left and right and requiring certain forms of language over others) -- being more Pavlovian than even Pavlov himself.
Thanks Toby. I think you can see Pavlovian classical conditioning and Foucault's perspective of power as two layers (I'm talking off the top of my head here and may need to dive into Foucault a bit deeper) - where Foucault is bringing the perspective of the powerful curating the language and discourse and Pavlov provides the understanding of how those words, definitions and discourses become embedded into our neural architecture to reflexively respond (i.e. without conscious effort) with the "right" responses. I think the perspectives fit together well as part of the propaganda picture. Of course Neurolinguistic Programming wraps it all up in a neat off-the-shelf, do-it-yourself propaganda manual ;-). I'll get to NLP soonish. Let me know if that resonates with you Toby or if there are other ideas floating around on this.
I have some sympathy for Foucault. Postmodernism can be a tool of liberation if used correctly. It certainly does not think of itself as top down. If Pavlov is a dog (obedient, loyal, trainable), postmodernism is just endless cats seemingly all doing their thing. But then in 2021, all the cats started acting in lockstep and it is profoundly weird.
I like your dog/cat analogy, and possibly postmodernism has had looked like cats doing their own thing but deeper down the erosion of certain foundations about reality has caused the cats to suddenly become a homogenous, tame, enslaved even, population desperately grasping for a foundation that has been deleted from their minds. I'm only guessing from the work of Iain McGilchrist and his "Master and His Emissary" and his new "The Matter With Things" (of which I've not read but waiting in eager anticipation at the front gate for it to be delivered).
Brilliant, thank you. Fits like a glove in the current context and I’m afraid it’s very depressing. Really brings the slogan ‘We’re all in this together’ in perspective, doesn’t it?
Yes that's right - and so many other slogans - I've mentioned before the "Stay Home, Save Lives" puts you in a situation that if you don't stay home you are killing people!