It seems to me that the roles have reversed to some extent from those we had 70-80 years ago. At this moment, the USA and Europe claim the same - distincly leftist and socialist - moral high ground that Nazi Germany was expressing pre WWII. And yes, after some study I find National Socialism and even Fascism to be historically leftist political movements, but that's a discussion for another day.
You can see it everywhere, cancellation of dissenting voices and persons, intervening in the use of certain words in language, (virtual) book burnings, meddling and corruption in elections (all be it covert this time), the rise to power of the (perceived) weak in society. Even the eugenicist proponents are on the Wests side now. One difference being, we didn't roll out our war machine over other countries for all to see like the Germans back then, but through regime changes and proxy wars. Ukraine is only one more example, in 2014 and now.
On the other side we have Russia and it's allies, who are now assuming patriotism, nationalism and religion their bases of reasoning and rhetoric , something the West was steeped in all these years ago. And it can very well be said that Russia invaded the Ukrain to liberate their people from oppression.
I don't know what will become of this, but I fear the worst. I was going to write "I don't know what's right or wrong", but I do. The right thing is to keep thinking about, and question, your own thought processes and sharing them with other people. Even though you can, and most probably will, be met with substantial resistance. To be August Landmesser, and to take Mitchell and Webb's question in their comedy scetch seriously: "Hans, are we the baddies?"
re: "One difference being, we didn't roll out our war machine over other countries for all to see like the Germans back then" ... From the roll out of our war machine over the past 30 years the relatives of the millions of dead people in Iraq & Afghanistan, might disagree with that line ... And a bit back further, the millions of dead Vietnamese and Cambodians ... The people in Syria, Yemen, Libya etc may be placated and sit back down via the reference to "proxy wars " ...
Are we the baddies now? The more I read from a range of perspectives the more it seems our side were the baddies way back when in the times that we are told, by the winners and controllers of our propaganda machine: "we were the goodies."
Ten minutes in and I will comment about Russia not having the proven fuel reserves for the long haul. Russia has enough natural gas for itself for 100 years. That's it. Russian oil reserves aren't all that spectacular either. They are similar to the USA, except that the USA has the capacity to use up our reserves much faster internally. There has to be people in Russia discussing whether keeping the fuel sources for themselves is smarter than engaging in any fuel exports. The numbers don't lie like the policy makers.
Peterson doesn't understand Energy Returned on Energy Invested (EROEI). He also doesn't understand the economics of $300 a barrel oil. I could elaborate but its best for listeners of the video and readers of my comments to do their own investigations. One thing Jordon alludes to that should be expected, none of this is going to end well. Human life on this planet is now dominated by fuel usage with declining EROEI (to varying degrees here and there).
He may not, neither do I, but my guess is that those economists who do understand probably miss the big picture Peterson is painting here (the clash of world views, not just a wrangle over resources) - as you say, none of this is going to end well.
Well, its complicated. Marxists in my view are simply useful for the fascists who control the west. And want to control Russia and all else. If we want peace and prosperity we must rid ourselves of fascists.
I worry likewise we may have a lot more carnage coming along. Asking with sincerity, who in your view are the fascists who control the west? ...
I'm pondering that the word "fascist" is very often used by people to simply mean "bullies" or "baddies" ... Rather than specifically to people who admire fascism re: "Fascism is a far-right, authoritarian, ultranationalist political ideology and movement, characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the good of the nation, and strong regimentation of society and the economy" - from wikipedia page.
In the western nations we certainly don't live under "far-right ... ultranationalist political ideology" ... Quite the opposite, as that is being demonised and squashed. Though we have lived recently under conditions of "authoritarian ... dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition ... subordination of individual interests for the good of the nation ..."
Over the aeons I've slowly come to realise the people who climb to the top of political power movements, across the spectrum, are those who crave power and lack empathy; namely 'dark triad' personality disorders like narcissism and psychopathy.
I'm reminded of an article article that proposes the solution: all people who are in or are applying for leadership positions must pass a psychology test that identifies and filters out those who lack empathy, who lack a social conscience.
Article title: "Is There A Way To Prevent Psychopaths From Getting Into Positions Of Power"
Before the claim became popular the definition was not clear. I have used to word to denote those who have the most money and work business relationships with government, taking government subsidies and using the force of law to protect fascist interests. Even in socialist economies they still control and profit from the means of production.
There are no solutions, there is only collapse from over use of resources and adaptation.
I overlooked in my prior comment to add "the very rich and powerful" to my list of people often referred to by the word "fascist" ...
Regards collapse and come-what-may, I expect the same types of people - call 'em narco-paths - who will survive and thrive [via charm, virtue-signalling, manipulations and bullying] to climb to the top of the heap; of whatever groups of people there are in coming times ... Sigh!
I don't know. Maybe an egalitarian relationship will exists for a time between shifts. Hard to imagine having been indoctrinated to such an extent!
However, in the future resources needed to support a large hierarchy will no longer be available. There will be (shifting) geographical areas that will be alright like it used to be.
I also could add this injection event fulfilled the ultimate business goal of the fascist in that the product was promoted and paid for by the government with laws that eschew the fascists of the liability of harm done.
In support of that I'd like to add a bit to this line "the product was promoted and paid for by the government - with funds they take from the taxpayer public - with laws that eschew the fascists of the liability of harm done."
Smarter to use less so that a 100 years becomes a few hundred. A 100 isn't very long and I doubt that we'll (or the Russians) have adequate replacements in that time.
We don't know. We also don't know if there will be liquidity to finance anything. We also don't know if the Russians would sell it. We also don't know if there will be many humans left to buy it too!
Again, the question is are the Russians acting on what they have as proven reserves, the reason why they baited the Europeans to cut them off of natgas, like they broke the Minsk Accords so no. mo. gas....
An extremely powerful video, that unfortunately those who need to absorb it the most, are the least likely to. Some quibble about minute details, but the core message is without fault.
Things like this are what the mass media ignores. It is up to us to be the pamphleteers of our modern digital age.
If you knew nothing about Putin and Aleksandr Dugin, Peterson's approach might seem sensible, but in light of the events since 2014 in Crimea and the Donbass region, and considering Dugin's 1997 work, Foundations of Geopolitics, Putin's great regret at the loss of the Soviet Union, which he served as one of the highest-ranking officers in the KGB, and Putin's desire to leave a lasting legacy, you might think differently. At least that's what happened with me. If I hadn't read the Dugin work - in light of the events of this last year and by extension going back to 2014 - and the writings of Faridova, Lozovsky, and numerous anarchist writers from Russia, Belarus, and Ukraine, I'd be arguing in exactly the same vein as Peterson (and in fact did so, if you look at my Substack, where you can trace the change in my thinking over the last six months or so).
Lots to check out there. Thanks for the links to your writings. Would you write an article in response to Peterson and flesh out your current position? That would be interesting.
I'd want him to read the Foundations of Geopolitics or this - https://tec.fsi.stanford.edu/docs/aleksandr-dugins-foundations-geopolitics - and see what effect that has on his position. If he kept the same position, then there might be a reason to put in the time to write an article. My current position is that Russia must be driven out of all of Ukraine, including Crimea - and perhaps especially Crimea - and if you look at a map, you'll know why. Same case for Transnistria, although that would really be up to Moldova. And then there's the problem of Zelenskyy, who is thoroughly corrupt, and whose government is an absolute kleptocracy, second only to that of Putin.
One thing further - I note that Peterson is obsessed with Putin's threat to use nuclear weapons - tactical or strategic - and uses that as a reason for backing down and appeasing Putin. The Russian military doctrine has been, during the cold war, to use nuclear weapons on the battlefield whenever they could confer an advantage, for shock value and for area denial. The reason they don't use them is that the prevailing winds go from west to east, which means that the food-producing areas of Russia would get hit with fallout, and would contaminate growing crops and soil, and plants tend to take up radionuclides from soil - in fact, plants are used for bioremediation of heavy metal soil contamination. Hitting Kiev with a pattern of nukes means that the Donbass and anything east gets hit with a good dose of fallout - and that's where Russia gets its wheat and other crops from. As a general terroristic threat, it's not a good thing to cave under such pressure, people who successfully use such threats will come back for more if they work. This is why Chamberlain's appeasement of Hitler in 1938 did not work, and we ended up with a broader, more destructive European war. If Hitler had been beaten back and driven from Austria and the Sudetenland in 1938, there's a good chance that the German General Staff would have taken out Hitler - look up "Operation Valkyrie"...
I'm only familiar with the Tom Cruise version of Operation Valkyrie ;-) - but I get what you are saying. I hope, if there is sustained war, that it will remain conventional. But I'm far from an informed analyst on these matters, so don't really know.
It seems to me that the roles have reversed to some extent from those we had 70-80 years ago. At this moment, the USA and Europe claim the same - distincly leftist and socialist - moral high ground that Nazi Germany was expressing pre WWII. And yes, after some study I find National Socialism and even Fascism to be historically leftist political movements, but that's a discussion for another day.
You can see it everywhere, cancellation of dissenting voices and persons, intervening in the use of certain words in language, (virtual) book burnings, meddling and corruption in elections (all be it covert this time), the rise to power of the (perceived) weak in society. Even the eugenicist proponents are on the Wests side now. One difference being, we didn't roll out our war machine over other countries for all to see like the Germans back then, but through regime changes and proxy wars. Ukraine is only one more example, in 2014 and now.
On the other side we have Russia and it's allies, who are now assuming patriotism, nationalism and religion their bases of reasoning and rhetoric , something the West was steeped in all these years ago. And it can very well be said that Russia invaded the Ukrain to liberate their people from oppression.
I don't know what will become of this, but I fear the worst. I was going to write "I don't know what's right or wrong", but I do. The right thing is to keep thinking about, and question, your own thought processes and sharing them with other people. Even though you can, and most probably will, be met with substantial resistance. To be August Landmesser, and to take Mitchell and Webb's question in their comedy scetch seriously: "Hans, are we the baddies?"
This whole thing is just the Cuban Missile Crisis with the teams reversed.
I agree with you, and endorse your self-examination, although you could add “are we the insane ones?”
re: "One difference being, we didn't roll out our war machine over other countries for all to see like the Germans back then" ... From the roll out of our war machine over the past 30 years the relatives of the millions of dead people in Iraq & Afghanistan, might disagree with that line ... And a bit back further, the millions of dead Vietnamese and Cambodians ... The people in Syria, Yemen, Libya etc may be placated and sit back down via the reference to "proxy wars " ...
Are we the baddies now? The more I read from a range of perspectives the more it seems our side were the baddies way back when in the times that we are told, by the winners and controllers of our propaganda machine: "we were the goodies."
Ten minutes in and I will comment about Russia not having the proven fuel reserves for the long haul. Russia has enough natural gas for itself for 100 years. That's it. Russian oil reserves aren't all that spectacular either. They are similar to the USA, except that the USA has the capacity to use up our reserves much faster internally. There has to be people in Russia discussing whether keeping the fuel sources for themselves is smarter than engaging in any fuel exports. The numbers don't lie like the policy makers.
Peterson doesn't understand Energy Returned on Energy Invested (EROEI). He also doesn't understand the economics of $300 a barrel oil. I could elaborate but its best for listeners of the video and readers of my comments to do their own investigations. One thing Jordon alludes to that should be expected, none of this is going to end well. Human life on this planet is now dominated by fuel usage with declining EROEI (to varying degrees here and there).
He may not, neither do I, but my guess is that those economists who do understand probably miss the big picture Peterson is painting here (the clash of world views, not just a wrangle over resources) - as you say, none of this is going to end well.
Unearned birthright! Oh I like that idea. Hahahaha!
Well, its complicated. Marxists in my view are simply useful for the fascists who control the west. And want to control Russia and all else. If we want peace and prosperity we must rid ourselves of fascists.
Prepare yourselves for maximum carnage!
I worry likewise we may have a lot more carnage coming along. Asking with sincerity, who in your view are the fascists who control the west? ...
I'm pondering that the word "fascist" is very often used by people to simply mean "bullies" or "baddies" ... Rather than specifically to people who admire fascism re: "Fascism is a far-right, authoritarian, ultranationalist political ideology and movement, characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the good of the nation, and strong regimentation of society and the economy" - from wikipedia page.
In the western nations we certainly don't live under "far-right ... ultranationalist political ideology" ... Quite the opposite, as that is being demonised and squashed. Though we have lived recently under conditions of "authoritarian ... dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition ... subordination of individual interests for the good of the nation ..."
Over the aeons I've slowly come to realise the people who climb to the top of political power movements, across the spectrum, are those who crave power and lack empathy; namely 'dark triad' personality disorders like narcissism and psychopathy.
I'm reminded of an article article that proposes the solution: all people who are in or are applying for leadership positions must pass a psychology test that identifies and filters out those who lack empathy, who lack a social conscience.
Article title: "Is There A Way To Prevent Psychopaths From Getting Into Positions Of Power"
Before the claim became popular the definition was not clear. I have used to word to denote those who have the most money and work business relationships with government, taking government subsidies and using the force of law to protect fascist interests. Even in socialist economies they still control and profit from the means of production.
There are no solutions, there is only collapse from over use of resources and adaptation.
I overlooked in my prior comment to add "the very rich and powerful" to my list of people often referred to by the word "fascist" ...
Regards collapse and come-what-may, I expect the same types of people - call 'em narco-paths - who will survive and thrive [via charm, virtue-signalling, manipulations and bullying] to climb to the top of the heap; of whatever groups of people there are in coming times ... Sigh!
I don't know. Maybe an egalitarian relationship will exists for a time between shifts. Hard to imagine having been indoctrinated to such an extent!
However, in the future resources needed to support a large hierarchy will no longer be available. There will be (shifting) geographical areas that will be alright like it used to be.
I also could add this injection event fulfilled the ultimate business goal of the fascist in that the product was promoted and paid for by the government with laws that eschew the fascists of the liability of harm done.
Mega profits!
In support of that I'd like to add a bit to this line "the product was promoted and paid for by the government - with funds they take from the taxpayer public - with laws that eschew the fascists of the liability of harm done."
Smarter to use less so that a 100 years becomes a few hundred. A 100 isn't very long and I doubt that we'll (or the Russians) have adequate replacements in that time.
As they continue to export that 100 years continues to decline.
There seems to be a fair bit of methane under the East Siberian sea ice
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2020/oct/27/sleeping-giant-arctic-methane-deposits-starting-to-release-scientists-find
This is a complicated topic, maybe there is natgas on Mars too! This link will define what proven reserves mean. https://www.definitions.net/definition/Proven%20reserves
Pretty shallow there, how hard would it be to drill down? Especially if the summer sea ice is no longer there?
We don't know. We also don't know if there will be liquidity to finance anything. We also don't know if the Russians would sell it. We also don't know if there will be many humans left to buy it too!
Again, the question is are the Russians acting on what they have as proven reserves, the reason why they baited the Europeans to cut them off of natgas, like they broke the Minsk Accords so no. mo. gas....
Ukraine is quite rich in fossil fuel resources - and lithium - https://streamfortyseven.substack.com/p/guess-what-ukraine-has-that-russia and https://streamfortyseven.substack.com/p/some-more-good-reasons-to-not-buy
Conjecture. Huge as to compared to what? What is the EROEI?
Either the goods will cross the borders, or the soldiers will.
I’m curious- what was Roger Waters right about?
United we stand divided we fall.
True - although it might depend on what is uniting us I guess - Babylon was united yet they fell.
Thanks for sharing Winston will probably link the video or article today @https://nothingnewunderthesun2016.com/
will definitely give you a shout out if I do!!!
For your and your reader's consideration as well.
Jordan Peterson’s Russia-Ukraine Do-Over
By Bionic Mosquito
https://www.lewrockwell.com/2022/07/bionic-mosquito/jordan-petersons-russia-ukraine-do-over/
An extremely powerful video, that unfortunately those who need to absorb it the most, are the least likely to. Some quibble about minute details, but the core message is without fault.
Things like this are what the mass media ignores. It is up to us to be the pamphleteers of our modern digital age.
If you knew nothing about Putin and Aleksandr Dugin, Peterson's approach might seem sensible, but in light of the events since 2014 in Crimea and the Donbass region, and considering Dugin's 1997 work, Foundations of Geopolitics, Putin's great regret at the loss of the Soviet Union, which he served as one of the highest-ranking officers in the KGB, and Putin's desire to leave a lasting legacy, you might think differently. At least that's what happened with me. If I hadn't read the Dugin work - in light of the events of this last year and by extension going back to 2014 - and the writings of Faridova, Lozovsky, and numerous anarchist writers from Russia, Belarus, and Ukraine, I'd be arguing in exactly the same vein as Peterson (and in fact did so, if you look at my Substack, where you can trace the change in my thinking over the last six months or so).
See https://streamfortyseven.substack.com/p/anarchist-viewpoints-on-the-war-in and https://streamfortyseven.substack.com/p/resistance-to-war-from-russia-part and https://streamfortyseven.substack.com/p/putins-and-dugins-vision-of-a-greater - the Russian translation in the last part isn't the best, but the original Russian version is appended so you can read that - and Putin's actions follow that, in great detail...
Lots to check out there. Thanks for the links to your writings. Would you write an article in response to Peterson and flesh out your current position? That would be interesting.
I'd want him to read the Foundations of Geopolitics or this - https://tec.fsi.stanford.edu/docs/aleksandr-dugins-foundations-geopolitics - and see what effect that has on his position. If he kept the same position, then there might be a reason to put in the time to write an article. My current position is that Russia must be driven out of all of Ukraine, including Crimea - and perhaps especially Crimea - and if you look at a map, you'll know why. Same case for Transnistria, although that would really be up to Moldova. And then there's the problem of Zelenskyy, who is thoroughly corrupt, and whose government is an absolute kleptocracy, second only to that of Putin.
One thing further - I note that Peterson is obsessed with Putin's threat to use nuclear weapons - tactical or strategic - and uses that as a reason for backing down and appeasing Putin. The Russian military doctrine has been, during the cold war, to use nuclear weapons on the battlefield whenever they could confer an advantage, for shock value and for area denial. The reason they don't use them is that the prevailing winds go from west to east, which means that the food-producing areas of Russia would get hit with fallout, and would contaminate growing crops and soil, and plants tend to take up radionuclides from soil - in fact, plants are used for bioremediation of heavy metal soil contamination. Hitting Kiev with a pattern of nukes means that the Donbass and anything east gets hit with a good dose of fallout - and that's where Russia gets its wheat and other crops from. As a general terroristic threat, it's not a good thing to cave under such pressure, people who successfully use such threats will come back for more if they work. This is why Chamberlain's appeasement of Hitler in 1938 did not work, and we ended up with a broader, more destructive European war. If Hitler had been beaten back and driven from Austria and the Sudetenland in 1938, there's a good chance that the German General Staff would have taken out Hitler - look up "Operation Valkyrie"...
That's a really interesting point!
I'm only familiar with the Tom Cruise version of Operation Valkyrie ;-) - but I get what you are saying. I hope, if there is sustained war, that it will remain conventional. But I'm far from an informed analyst on these matters, so don't really know.
Thanks for your input streamfortyseven.
I was actually thinking of this - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oster_conspiracy - instead of the later Operation Valkyrie...
Ah OK - very interesting.
What a powerful message!!!! Many of us need to "open" our eyes to what is actually happening!!!